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[jonathan_landreth]

                In which, Chris & Jonathan lament over the loss of lovers and friends.

Music: "Love You More (Instrumental)" by Eminem
http://kickedinthedicebags.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=546946

[Michael]

                In which, Chris & Jonathan lament over the loss of lovers and friends.

Music: "Love You More (Instrumental)" by Eminem
http://kickedinthedicebags.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=546946

You guys continue to impress. Its not an easy thing to talk about, but then again, its the honest realism that makes this show likable to me. Don't feel to bad about getting drunk at the convention, Jon, because she was sober when she decided to betray you, and so it could hardly be blamed on the heat of the moment. If she didn't do it there, she would have done it somewhere else, its like I said on SAFB, people don't get corrupted, they just are that way.

[Kristin.pinky]

I'll never be able to say sorry enough fucking times for my mistakes. I cheated. I'm a terrible horrible slut of a whore. Chris was right I wanted a way out. I'm a shitty person for using ryan and you to do it. I should have "maned up" and just said that I was leaving.. You kept a roof over my head and food in my belly, and most of my meds. You are awesome and I suck. I didn't feel like I was having my emotional needs met but, that isn't any excuse for what I did. I was unhappy, you knew I was unhappy I told you the things that I was unhappy about, but you never did anything to try to fix it. And btw, when someone is upset about her great grandma is dieing you don't say "well she's old and gonna die".

[Kristin.pinky]

I just kept feeling like I was alone and I didn't know how to handle that correctly and I know that I didn't. I felt emotional needs weren't being met and.. I took what I could get where I could get it. And i do like it when people pay attention to me because, I never got that kind of attention in my younger years. Again that's probably an excuse too. Barely anything that I do/say/think/feel is rational anyway. I don't know if I can show my face on the board anymore. I'm not as strong as Jon is about people judging me like him.

[Rib]

i admire your courage jon for coming out in public like this about the issue, same shit has happened to me more than once it sucks balls. however being an outsider on this like makes it hard, Kristin has attempted to cover her side of the story and it seems that they line up and for that I admire her too.

unluckily for me and for others who have spoke to both of you guys means I have a lot of love for you both and regardless of the situation my view hasn't changed, you're both champs, sure sucky shit went down, you parted ways but I hope you both grow from this.

[runester]

WHAT THE FUCK! I'm away from the boards for a few days and all of this happens?         

=-=-=-=-=

I'm kind of speechless here. Nothing I'd say would be very appropriate, especially since I don't (really) know anyone involved. There's a certain prurient voyeurism involved in watching the private details of someone else's life; but this ain't no soap opera and real people with real feelings are involved.

"I'm sorry you're experiencing this" I guess I can safely say that; and direct it to both of you.

[david]

Wow.  What a raw show.

I find it fascinating that what I enjoy most about your show is the lack of showmanship. 

Actually, I have very complicated thoughts on suicide and relationships.  But, Friday night I was really drunk and hanging out on Vent.  Probably better you didn't ping me.

[Ryan]

Wow. I don't know what to say.

Jonathan explained my involvement more fairly then I would have the right to expect.
Even so I have no excuses. I am incredibly sorry, I owe much more then an apology but it's all I can do.

 
I wish you the best of luck. 

[runester]

I finished listening to the episode.

On the one hand, I'm still surprised that you two don't feel the need to keep some matters private. While it makes your podcast fascinating to listen to and sets it head and shoulders above the rather pedantic crowd, it's also unsettling to realize that you just broadcast your personal business to a bunch of people (myself certainly included) who have no right to hear or know any of that.

If you were just the voice in my radio, then maybe it wouldn't matter - but I'm actually quite likely to meet one or the other of you at a future convention. Perhaps even as soon as March, down in St. Louis. So, when I go to shake your hand, in the back of my mind will be, "There's Jonathan. Fucked a lot of tramps while working at the theater and then had his heart broken by Kristin when she cheated on him with another podcaster." And, "There's Chris, broke up with his long term girlfriend and mother of his child. I wonder how he's doing with child-support and visitation?" It's going to be hard NOT to do that; it's only human nature.

But really, why should I know any of that? Why shouldn't your business be your business and when we meet and shake hands, why can't the only thing between us be our shared love of a hobby and this podcast?

Conversely, every time someone looks at you funny, are you going to be thinking, "I wonder if they know? I wonder if that person is judging me and secretly gloating at my failed relationship(s)?"

I think this level of raw self-exposure is going to make certain social interactions harder. I suspect that people equivocate and spin and hide, because in order to successfully navigate complex social networks - it's necessary.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

As for the whole situation, with both Jonathan and Chris ... I'm finding it very hard to allocate blame or be angry or outraged or whatever. In both cases, the women involved almost certainly had serious relationship issues that predated your relationship and may have only been tangentially related to you. Not everyone involved acted wisely, fairly, or honestly; but people seldom do when the stakes seem so high. I feel badly that so many are so hurt. I feel badly that there are serious issues with trusting women, which will be brought into future relationships. I feel badly that the women felt driven to these actions and will, at least in Kristin's case, lead to guilt and (perhaps) even lower self-esteem. I feel badly that the cycle has repeated itself, again, and set-up the next round for another mess.

And, I've known people, some very close to me, who were devastated when their spouse cheated on them. [And in their cases, cheated meant "fucked repeatedly while lying about it."] I've also known good friends who are told by their wives, "I'm done with you, I'm seeing someone else, let's begin the divorce" ... and it seems to come from almost no where and then they go through a year or more of EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE divorce proceedings and self-recriminations and guilt over the impact on their children and depression that they're suddenly broke, single, and in their forties.

I understand how serious these events are.

But the fact that you're all so young suggests that there will be plenty of opportunities to make up for any loss (real or perceived) and what feels like shit now will just end up being an interesting anecdote for your eventual autobiographies, later. And, finally, that the greatest gift you can give yourself and those around is to vow not to bring this as baggage into your next relationship. To let the past lay, and let each new relationship be something new.

Good luck.

[Rib]

I also finished it last night, actually stayed up pretty late to finish it.

I'm sad to hear that Chris is having the same problems andI think personally for me this episode has brought home the reality of my own relationship trouble (long distance is pretty faggy). I applaud both you guys for bravely speaking of it, I could hear the hurt in particular in Jon's voice for most of the episode, unless it was just skewed with me knowing what was happening. Now that you're both off the hook (Jon more than Chris, you still got kids, buddy!) that means you can scrape some cash together and come here and visit! We'll treat you reaaaaal nice.

[chris_eats_brains]

 I felt it was cathartic for me from my standpoint in relation to my girlfriend. It helped me gain a perspective of shared accountability and in hindsight what was absent and what I didn't see going forward. So I didn't make the same mistake per se but I did make one nonetheless due to making a poor choice in general. Love blinds people more enough than not so the red flags aren't seen as clearly.

 Ericka is far more or a class act that Tracy who was a cutter and was verbally and physically abusive and she cursed people down the street so discretion wasn't there either.  She had major issues and  left the marriage and I can't say I chased her down when she did and that was a marriage of a year after dating for three years. I couldn't get past the infidelity also on her end something that Jon is wrestling with now today.

Ericka has given me two wonderful kids that I love with all of my heart that we have joint custody of and whom I  get to visit regularly and child support was worked out long ago as we decided we would do that legally should we ever split up. Which was a good thing looking back on it all. So loose ends are tied and yeah I don't have the clean walk away but I had it before with my ex wife. so no guarantees the second time around or the third. I don't regret the three years spent with her and now that some time has past I am not even angry at her decision. I think it was the right one to make based on how things were going. It is better to leave while love its still there than hate and resent one another.

All in all I guess what I  have learned is happiness begins with self.

You can't find completion or guarantees in another person. No woman in your life is guaranteed to be there for the long haul anymore than you might be willing to stay. And even though this might be a cold comfort it was better that this have happened now than five years from now when they both would have been logically married by then.

Yes.. this episode was hard and raw and unapologetic.  I even questioned Jon in doing it initially knowing it was coming in the distance from his end of the news.

But it was also honest, reflective and heartfelt and ultimately when Jon told me he was going to speak about this I could have kept silent about my stuff but I felt that would have been hypocritical and not showing the same  amount of courage that he did to say what he felt needed saying and in turn I learned or rather re-learned  that I really didn't lose anything that wasn't gone already.

 That's the illusion.. if someone tells you its over or cheats on you and you find out the relationship as you perceived it was the mirage in the desert..the illusion and the reality it the acceptance of what actually is the truth..unhappiness, acknowledgment and facing up to that fact and moving on to something better.

I have my kids and I have a parenting relationship with Ericka. Ericka and I were never planning on getting married ever. Particularly after our mutual divorces hers after seven years with a cheating husband who showed his color after the last two years  and mine of little over one year between June1999 and December 2000.

Will someone smirk, gloat, or make some snide comment in the backdrop or in person ?  Sock puppets often do by their is clever self pat on the back of cowardice veiled in anonymity of a fake IP address with no solid convictions to stand up and be counted. In that sense they are Internet eunuchs and they traded the intellectual property of their own balls to Microsoft long ago. But the possibility exists  but that does not mean that because the fear of that or in the absence of the fear of  that waiting in the shadows that we should hold back things we feel need to be said and addressed on the show.


And frankly speaking for myself, I  don't answer to those people when it comes to what personal tidbits I disclose and what I  choose not to reveal. If they say something inappropriate I will handle it in a diplomatic manner first and then in a classic Bronx manner after that when all of the diplomacy fails

 Because I am secure in myself that whether I have their approval or not my moral compass is steady and  I have survived far worse and will continue to survive.

After viewing the postscript/epitaph what happened to Victor and scattering his ashes to the four winds there are far worse outcomes like never having people around you to love because he pushed them all away his hateful,angry tunnel vision and then when he felt there was nothing left he took his own life. There is so much he will never get the chance to  experience. So many instances of love and camaraderie now gone. So many possibilities lost. I am certain I will live and love again. Already there are a few  women are lining up( not a matter of ego but truth) but I am not sure I am ready just yet to date those women. But time will tell and I will just have to see how I feel about dating casually again after coming out of a relationship just like that.

Life is short and you can't spend it looking in the rear view mirror of regret and anguish. It moves forward and it is fluid. Time doesn't heal everything and there is a lesson to  be taken from that. Sometimes the clarity we get with all the break ups or the parted ways, we gain a wisdom or an understanding  about ourselves and others we would not have gotten otherwise.

You also learned from the episode something different about Jon that isn't just some guy that doesn't for all appearances give a fuck. He peeled back the layers that would by all accounts be closed to you all and let the audience into his life showing more complexity and humanity than most give him credit for...
He is a survivor and he has good people behind him..he will be fine as the distance on this get farther away in the rear view mirror and  if he looks ahead rather than behind.

[jonathan_landreth]

On the one hand, I'm still surprised that you two don't feel the need to keep some matters private. While it makes your podcast fascinating to listen to and sets it head and shoulders above the rather pedantic crowd, it's also unsettling to realize that you just broadcast your personal business to a bunch of people (myself certainly included) who have no right to hear or know any of that.

If you were just the voice in my radio, then maybe it wouldn't matter - but I'm actually quite likely to meet one or the other of you at a future convention. Perhaps even as soon as March, down in St. Louis. So, when I go to shake your hand, in the back of my mind will be, "There's Jonathan. Fucked a lot of tramps while working at the theater and then had his heart broken by Kristin when she cheated on him with another podcaster." And, "There's Chris, broke up with his long term girlfriend and mother of his child. I wonder how he's doing with child-support and visitation?" It's going to be hard NOT to do that; it's only human nature.

But really, why should I know any of that? Why shouldn't your business be your business and when we meet and shake hands, why can't the only thing between us be our shared love of a hobby and this podcast?

Conversely, every time someone looks at you funny, are you going to be thinking, "I wonder if they know? I wonder if that person is judging me and secretly gloating at my failed relationship(s)?"

I think this level of raw self-exposure is going to make certain social interactions harder. I suspect that people equivocate and spin and hide, because in order to successfully navigate complex social networks - it's necessary.

Depends on your definition of success. I think I've managed to navigate the podcasting community with great success by just being me. It's not like I record all my business for the podcast and keep silent in my day to day life. There's nothing I've said on this cast that everyone from my friends, family, and co-workers don't already know.

I think it really helps with podcasters. Anytime I've been asked to guest on a show, at least they knew exactly what to expect, as do you, when we meet in STL.

[Rib]

luckily I had an idea of how our latest episode of DUG was going to go, I dont think myself or Ice would have liked you coming on talking about frothy milkshake shits. actually, take that back...

One day when I venture over your way and get to shake your hands I agree with Runester that it might be a little awkward, thinking "here are these guys who have divulged so much about their personal lives" while I haven't shared to many people at all the nitty-gritty of what goes on in my world. I think it'll be fine, I'll drink a beer, Chris will drink with me and we'll give Jon water in case he tries to slip his thumb in my drunk ass.

[Kristin.pinky]

While I would have preferred that Jon didn't expose all the nitty-gritty details like that, it's his way and I just have to roll with it. Though I do kinda wish he would have added in some of the small details that made me sound less like a whore.

And guys, if/when you meet Jon at a con you wont even think on any of this stuff. You'll just be like "Wow, it's Jon. ..... He's an ass in real life too! lol." But it will be cool and you'll have fun. And you will definatly have stories to tell.

[Michael]

While I would have preferred that Jon didn't expose all the nitty-gritty details like that, it's his way and I just have to roll with it. Though I do kinda wish he would have added in some of the small details that made me sound less like a whore.

Well he would have had to tell eventually because people would start asking when we no longer heard you in the background, or he no longer talked about you (fondly). I know I would have.

And I don't know why everyone seems to think that when a listener meets Jon, they are going to remember all the bad stuff. Sure some people will, but the majority will just find it a little easier to make friends with him. I surely won't think of him as an asshole if I meet him, but thats largely due to me being a bigger asshole.