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Author Topic: Traveler or....  (Read 523 times)

DevilMountain

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Traveler or....
« on: December 23, 2009, 10:28:42 AM »
I'm contemplating starting a sci-fi game for my group. Something part space opera, part hard science. Something fun with startships and explosions.
I have read a few reviews of Mongoose Publishing's current edition of Traveler (sadly I have never played any version of the game). I wonder if any of you fine folks out there would recommend Traveler or make other suggestions.

What I am looking for in a game.
My group is currently playing 4e and I believe the level of crunch involved is just about right for the group. Most of them aren't into the crunch, so when it comes time to level up the ask me "What do I want?" "how do I get better?" kind of stuff. Luckily with 4e you don't really need to know how the car runs as long as you can drive it. As a DM however, I like the crunch to be in the background. I want rules for the things that happen and rules for the designing of things, worlds, starships, etc.

I have d20 Modern/Future/Cyberspace/Future-tech already. Are there any of you out there that have played both games and if so which would you prefer and why?

Thanks for your time!
Merry Xmas too

Luke

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Re: Traveler or....
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2009, 11:13:42 AM »
Traveler is a classic. You can't go wrong with it.

However, you may have heard (and will definitely hear more) of me raving recently for a new game called Diaspora. It's a game written by a bunch of Traveler fans to be a game of hard sci-fi.  Its uses the FATE system that power Spirit of the Century, which is one of my favorite new systems of the last few years.  It's easy to learn and a ton of fun.

I have the hardcover on order, but you can find the rules in the SRD here.
"Everything I do is the attitude of an award winner because I've won an award.." - Ron Swanson

DevilMountain

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Re: Traveler or....
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2009, 12:13:53 PM »
Very nice!
Lord love the SRD!

I like the idea of the game, but for my group narrative control in their hands does not really play too successfully. I tried giving them narrative control during skill challenges in 4e and most of them just stood there and stared at me.

That being said, the system and cluster generation mechanic and idea might be able to be ported into any other game with just a small nudge here and there. I think this could work very nicely.

Thanks Mr. Luke.


Luke

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Re: Traveler or....
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2009, 12:46:26 PM »
No problem.

The game doesn't rely on narrative control, though. You could run Diaspora with traditional GM narration without any modification.  That's what I'm going to do.
"Everything I do is the attitude of an award winner because I've won an award.." - Ron Swanson

rmckee78

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Re: Traveler or....
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2009, 01:42:54 PM »
I cannot say enough good things about Traveller. I have been playing it for years. I think that the Mongoose version is an excellent way to start the game. Even better there are sourcebooks for many different sci-fi universes available for it like Babylon 5. There are two camps of Traveller players, those that hold to the "Official Traveller Universe" and those that see it as a toolkit for making your own game. There is some bitterness towars the Mongoose game amongst the first camp. I only say that so that you go to any Traveller based forums prepared. I personally have always just used it as a jumping off point for my own games.

The GURPS version of Traveller is also excellent. GURPS is not nearly as hard to play as people seem to think.

DevilMountain

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Re: Traveler or....
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2009, 03:26:15 PM »
I've never had any problem with Gurps, though Im not overly thrilled with it.
As for Mongoose's traveler, I'd be using it go run my own setting so that sounds perfect. I read about the Third Imperium online and for one of my players who is die-hard Warhammer 40k guy, I think I should avoid all ties to the Imperium of any kind.


keithcurtis

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Re: Traveler or....
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2009, 12:19:18 AM »
I really wanted to like Traveller, way back during first edition, but it only seemed to be able to tell one kind of story: Mercenary activity, with a side helping of merchant. Nearly every character option was some sort of ex-military. I wanted to do Star Wars or Star Trek, and it just wasn't set up for that sort of game.

Later editions are probably much more flexible.

rmckee78

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Re: Traveler or....
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2009, 09:05:55 AM »
I really wanted to like Traveller, way back during first edition, but it only seemed to be able to tell one kind of story: Mercenary activity, with a side helping of merchant. Nearly every character option was some sort of ex-military. I wanted to do Star Wars or Star Trek, and it just wasn't set up for that sort of game.

Later editions are probably much more flexible.

I'd say this is pretty spot on. Especially in the original 1st edition books. More options opened up with later books in the edition but the original set was pretty much centered on a merchant or ex-military campaign. Even now the Star Wars, sci-fantasy, style is not really supported all that well. There seems to be a deliberate choice to go in the other direction with it. The Mongoose version, while very close to the original, is a bit better set up for different styles because they intend it as a generic sci-fi system.

If you are getting Mongoose Traveller, it is available in a cheaper Pocket version

keithcurtis

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Re: Traveler or....
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2009, 12:33:47 PM »
I really wanted to like Traveller, way back during first edition, but it only seemed to be able to tell one kind of story: Mercenary activity, with a side helping of merchant. Nearly every character option was some sort of ex-military. I wanted to do Star Wars or Star Trek, and it just wasn't set up for that sort of game.

Later editions are probably much more flexible.

I'd say this is pretty spot on. Especially in the original 1st edition books. More options opened up with later books in the edition but the original set was pretty much centered on a merchant or ex-military campaign. Even now the Star Wars, sci-fantasy, style is not really supported all that well. There seems to be a deliberate choice to go in the other direction with it. The Mongoose version, while very close to the original, is a bit better set up for different styles because they intend it as a generic sci-fi system.

If you are getting Mongoose Traveller, it is available in a cheaper Pocket version
The frustrating thing about original traveller character creation (besides the old chestnut that you could die), was that it wlways felt like you were starting to play your character after he had already had his adventures.

"I'm mustering out after 20 years in the navy? What did I do for those 20 years? I was a Captain? That sounds exciting. I could have real adventures as a Navy captain, commanding my own ship. Wait. I'm not one anymore? I have 10,000 credits a vacc suit and a High Passage ticket? That's what I'm working with here? ::grumble:: Where's the Space Opera books? Oh, yeah. Space Opera. I have to have a character before next Thursday. I guess I'll roll up a magic user. Hand me the PHB."

rmckee78

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Re: Traveler or....
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2010, 02:48:14 PM »
Woops, I forgot about this thread.

Old school Traveller was very much part of the "story depth comes in the retelling" camp. The game relied heavily on random factors even outside of character creation. There were tables to randomly generate almost anything. The game, even more so than other old school games, could easily wind up being a series of mechanical challenges and puzzles for the player during the play session. The story depth would come in when the character's exploits were recounted. Traveller was a role playing game that was very much in touch with the "game" portion of that phrase.

I have observed this at work many times in my own groups. When we played Traveller: The New Era my players actually loved making up characters. In one group we never even played a session of the game. We made up characters several weeks in a row. By TNE the lifepath system was very in depth and complicated, the player would make many choices during character creation. They would roll through their life path and then come up with a story to make it all work. It became a kind of random story outline generator.

In classic Traveller many of our sessions looked like scout data reports and balance sheets at the end of the night. By the next week they had taken on a life of their own though. As we sat down for the next session the players had put all of the results from last week's game into context.

Another place I have encountered this behavior is with D&D henchmen. I would roll up random henchmen that would join the party.  During the first session they were there the player saw them as nothing but  a meat bag. They were hit points to be moved around. I would give them some minor personality, but let's face it, in AD&D the torch bearer probably wasn't going to be around long. As they made it through more and more sessions the players would bring them to life on their own, with very little input from me. I just responded to what they were doing.

Especially with overland adventures, it can be very hard for players to tell if they just had a planned encounter or a random encounter. There have been nights where, while exploring an uncharted land, my players only had random encounters. Next week when we sat down, there would be a story connecting them in some fashion. Of course I am going to take advantage of that.

I have even noticed myself doing this. In XCom the longer I had a guy in my squad, the more I put some kind of personality on him in my mind. There was absolutely no feedback from the game to support this. In fact I strongly believe that this is why that game remains so popular today.