save against frostbite ep 83 - Caharsis Mail Predators

I'm still listening guys, I'll write a proper argument after I've gone back and relistened to the episode. Doug pisses me off, I don't hate him, he's just an annoying dick.

Doug : You can't be a real nemesis without the hate sex. At least we're on the level there.

Thanks for the invite onto the Podcast but I'll decline, it sounds strange but I believe the forum is a better place for this discussion. It's a very heated debate and the delayed reaction of the forum allows for a less impulsive response and gives people time to think and refine their points better. As much fun as screaming at Doug would be, I think a superior debate is a better objective for the outcome.

"Lack of Cops is not an excuse for acting unlawfully, nor is the fact that there are world leaders there. The cops are not only there to protect the World leaders, they are also there to protect the protestors and their protestor's rights, including their human rights, which they abused instead. Just because some body is famous it does not make them more important than any body else. Barack Obama and me are on exactly the same level when it comes to human rights, the moment you elevate any body above someone else you are making a mockery of what human rights stands for.

Stress is no excuse for how they acted. They are trained to deal with these situations but there are still people who will snap and act like assholes. These people need to be brought to justice and be punished for their crimes, the same way everyone else should be. If I can postal and unlawfully detain a hot chick for a day, I would be arrested for kidnap, the cops did exactly the same thing and are hiding behind their badges as an excuse. It's a known problem that cops and the military close ranks to protect themselves, while everyone is innocent until proven guilty, it is a logical response to be paranoid about the cops when they cover up murder and abuse.

Being caught in the crossfire is not a crime and people should not be detained for it. By the same logic I can start throwing grenades through your frontroom window, if you're there then that is your problem not mine. If I have to get to my home on a street that has riots I have to go through it, am I now part of the mob and should be detained or am I having my human rights abused?

One single act of human rights being violated is wrong and should never happen. People will always take as much as they can get away with. Every journey starts with one step, letting anything slide will just encourage people to keep doing it. Take Piracy online for example, it started small and grew, now every teenager in the Western world considers music to be free online and hardly buys shit. It all started from the small act of recording songs off the radio and copying old computer games.

Riot police are trained to think clearly and run many simulations. If they are unable to do their job they should not be in that situation. Some people will always snap and lash out and those people should be removed from the forces and deal with in whatever fashion is needed. But the police are meant to handle these situations, why do we have police is they are unable to handle this?

"You were born, you deserve cancer!" - This is the logic Doug is using. I'm sure there are people in the world that do deserve cancer, but not all of them.

"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem". Well no, that type of logic leads to things like the Iraq war. Life has a grey scale and I can support something while not encouraging it or I can disagree with something while not opposing it. I'm not a problem unless I become a problem and vice versa. And this is life, I'm sure many right wing people think left wing people are a problem and shouldn't be allowed to express their opinions and vice versa. The moment you label someone "with" or "against us" you instantly shut off your ears to what they are saying and make up your own mind instead. This is not a healthy situation to be in and yet in episode 82, this is exactly what you did.

One situation is never acceptable. You do not understand every person who was arrested, you can't possibly understand all these people and how they respond to things. If you take someone scared of hamsters to a petshop it's worse than the most terrifying horror movie. People may flip out in any situation and you can't just write off people's opinions and emotions because yours are different. Also you have the extended problem of health issues, wat about people with diabetis and other dieases?

"A lot of people are accepting", fuck people being accepting. People can accept anything if it's served right. The majority being accepting does not make it right. Tyranny of the majority is a very real thing and gets us in a shitty position quite often. Takes Microsoft and Windows, it's single handedly made the IT world a worse place but because everybody has Windows it keeps doing so.

At any peaceful protest people will flip out and act like assholes. You punish the assholes, you don't punish the innocent people. You can't tell if someone is making trouble at a riot when 10% of people are flipping out, it becomes a cluster fuck and the cops may need to grab every fucker they can and regain order. The problem is there are many stories where people clearly not making trouble got grabbed. That's life and happens once in a while, but it shouldn't happen on the scale it did.

"If one single police officer loses his job over this I'm gonna be pissed". - Okay then, lets say a cop was found to beat the shit out of his ex girlfriend in these riots because he just happened to find her on the front lines, should he keep his job? The riot is full of many stories and many people, cops who acted out of line deserve to be stripped of their badge and told to GTFO. The same way a pilot who flies a plane while drunk or a surgeon who killed someone because he was in a rush to get home. They fucked up, they are no longer fit to do their job and should be removed from it. If a cops commander can't control his forces correctly then he needs to be removed from that position.

You can't deny the cops cover shit up, there are countless cases of this. For example in the UK the cops shot an innocent man in the subway, just straight out capped him. They covered it up and lied for months about it, it was later proven they lied and the guy did nothing they said he did, the enquiry found the cops fucked up but none of the cops were punished for it, they got away with murder even when it was blindly obvious it was an unlawful murder.

"I've already forgotten about the G20, we should move on" - This is the line that really pissed me off. You talked so much shit and then when Pete through it back in your face you scurried under a rug. Your words have power and the moment you throw that around casually and then not want to own up to it, you're being an asshole. You need to shut your mouth or stand by your words"

"Stop being a sissy" - You're acting like an ignorant cock. This is why I say you're immature and have no world experience. You can't see the world outside your own little box. Everyone responds in different ways and you can't write off their emotions as invalid because you don't agree with them. The world is a fucking huge place and there are people allergic to water and people terrified of being naked. I think being unjustly arrested and detained for hours is not such an illogical response.

Just because you're ordered doesn't mean you weren't acting like an asshole and deserve to have your nuts put in a vice. If I order you to stab Pete and you do it, you still stabbed Pete, I did not. Why should you get off with that?"

Balls in your court Doug. It's a little messy because I wrote it as I listened to the episode and was responding to what was being said and jumping about in the discussion.